Synopsis : A reclusive English teacher suffering from severe obesity attempts to reconnect with his estranged teenage daughter for one last chance at redemption.

Rating: R (Language|Some Drug Use|Sexual Content)
Genre: Drama
Original Language: English
Director: Darren Aronofsky
Writer: Samuel D. Hunter
Release Date (Theaters): Dec 9, 2022 Limited
Runtime: 1h 57m
Distributor: A24

Q&A with Director Darren Aronofsky and Actress Sadie Sink 

Q: This film premiered at Venice, then Toronto and now it’s here. What’s it like to finally be sharing this film with fans? 

DA: It’s great. This is what you live for, this moment, as a filmmaker. This is opening night. It’s also one of the great theaters of New York City. So it’s wonderful to be in this room and have this turnout.

Q: So much has been made of Brendan Fraser’s incredible performance. This film is also an ensemble and the performances across the boards match him as well. When finding actors for your projects, what’s the key ingredient that you look for in an actor who’s willing to go to the lengths that they have to go to to work with you? 

DA: We want to have actors who want to do the work. A lot of people say, “Oh, you push actors” but I think it’s really more about looking for actors that remember what acting school is like. When they were there they all wanted to cry, scream and really, really work for it. The roles I get excited about are the ones that really explode with emotion and feeling and are really different. I think actors who are attracted to that are the ones that are hungry for it.

Q: Would you describe yourself as a “hungry” actress? 

SS: Sure. For this role, I really didn’t have that much experience in film. I come from TV. Of course, I’ve never played a character this complex. When we did that cold reading of it about a year before production started, I just loved to do this. I have to do it. I felt like it would be a real opportunity to grow as an actress. Roles like this don’t often come along, especially for someone my age. So I was really, really grateful that you hired me.

Q: You’re a director-driven performer. A lot of actors are enticed by projects based on the filmmaker attached. Was this one of them for you, or is that not the case? 

SS: I come as prepared as possible, but I always appreciate the hands-on director. He’s steering the ship. I love the guidance, especially for this and with a character like this one. Each scene was part of one giant arc and the vulnerability slowly seeped through. It was really important to have someone who’s able to guide you.

Q: Darren, how do you create and foster a safe environment for your actors on set? 

DA: We spend a lot of time before the film ever starts just talking about the characters so everyone understands what’s going to be needed. Then it’s not very intense on set. It’s intense in bursts. There’s not that many jokes because we shot this during the height of Covid. So everyone was in a mask and other people just kept their heads down a little bit. It was a little weird. Normally there’s lots of humor and jokes on my set. But, there was a different mood on set. I think people were excited to be working, but everyone was wearing a mask all the time. There was some joking, I guess, afterward. It was also weird because normally in films, a real family feeling happens. But, in this case, the shooting would end and everyone would go home and be locked off in their own world. It was more like factory work, a little bit odd. The intense emotions I think are just for those moments between “action” and “cut.” It’s more fun when we’re working in the moment and making it. People go, “Oh, how about this? Try this. Try that.” The actors are excited when they have a few ideas for our film.

Q: Sadie, you say some horrible things to Brendan’s character over the course of the film. It’s obviously a great screenplay and a great character. As a person yourself, did you ever feel bad about these insults being directed at a man you obviously admire quite a bit? 

SS: I think I got over that — it sounds awful. But we had three weeks of rehearsal so we got comfortable with the dialogue. For Ellie, everything is justified in her mind. If you feel you’re not respected, then no, it’s not difficult at all. But looking back, there were harsh moments.

Q: You said you’ve worked in television prior to making this film. Working with a director like Darren on one of your first major features must be quite the experience. How did it affect the way that you want to go about your career going forward, especially as to the roles you want to take on? 

SS: I learned the importance of working with filmmakers that you really trust, and that’s probably the main thing that I’m really looking forward to. The role can be right but I really learned to value surrounding yourself with a really creative team attached.

Q: How was the rehearsal process? Is that typical for a film of yours, or did this one just call for it given the confined setting and the small cast? 

DA: I try to do it every time. But this film was super-important. It was a super-low-budget movie, and we couldn’t have blocked and made all the blocking decisions for it. If you remember, the whole thing takes place in one room, and I’m hoping you weren’t limited by that experience. I think that’s because the actors are always doing something interesting and that takes a lot of time. We basically saw Brendan very much as the center of the solar system and all the other actors were planets and satellites circling him, and how they moved around and tried to keep being inventive in how they moved around. That invention was based on hopefully telling the story in a better way. One of our favorite ones was when you [to Sadie] were taunting him, walking behind him and he’s struggling to turn. We knew that that would set up how much of an asshole you were, and how limited his movement was. So it killed two birds with one stone.

Q: This film was really born in New York where we first saw the off-Broadway play which this film is based on. 

DA: Playwrights’ Horizon.

Q: Take us back to when you watched it for the first time and you knew it was something that you wanted to tackle? 

DA: It was literally playing 10 years ago this month. I was there, and had never seen anything like it ever in entertainment. I had never seen characters like this. They were nothing like me, yet, in five minutes, I got more and more invested. By the end of it, I was deeply moved. That’s the power of movies and cinema: you can find characters all over the planet that you don’t really relate to and be brought into their world. The opportunity to bring Charlie to the universe and let people go, “Wow! That’s a pretty complicated character and I never met anyone like that.” It changes the way I look at him.”

Q: You talked about filming during the Covid. The theme of this film is honesty. There’s a big difference between seeing an actor crying or seeing devastation in their eyes. How did it being filmed during Covid shutdown, have an impact on the process in which you went about telling the story? 

SS: It was shot starting in January 2021  — this was before the vaccine was accessible — because of that, Covid precautions were very much still in place. It was pretty isolating and we were alone in Newburg, New York. There was not a lot going on there. So most of the time I was interacting with a human being on set and that interaction would be blended into the theme. I think it kind of focused us all, and also that feeling of isolation, of loneliness, I think. You see it an awful lot in the film, and with Ellie, she’s a very lonely person. It got us all in the right mindset.

DA: It’s interesting… I think the film resonates more post-Covid than before, because we all kind of lived Charlie’s life in some form. I think it’s bringing out weird things among people in different ways. It makes Charlie’s story a little more accessible.

Q: I cried a lot more at the end than I thought I was going to. He’s talked about the obliteration of self in terms of Whitman’s Poem. But I was thinking that death is the road to “The fountain” ending. Why do you go there and how do you go there? 

DA: It’s true. Mark Heyman, who wrote “Black Swan”, wrote me a letter after he saw this. He was like, “Like all your films, the character dies at the end. But this one’s different because he actually gives something to someone else besides himself. Most of the other characters are selfish and it’s personal, right? This one actually gives something back.” So I was kind of evolving a little bit. 

Q: You depict quite a few characters who suffer from their own self-destructiveness and sort of hopelessness towards that. What drives you to put stories like that on film? 

DA: I don’t know. I’m not really sure. I don’t know what drives or what I’m attracted to in these characters. I just find these stories really engaging. I felt that Charlie was very different because he was giving back so much. I don’t know. I don’t really have an answer except all of these films I do just feel right somewhere and I tell the stories. So I don’t know if it’s fully conscious, what’s going on. When I find the stories it’s what is inspiring. 

Q: The character of Ellie seems to be someone that is kind of playing both sides, like  “Oh, I really want to be alone” but also “I want to be with people.” So throughout your performance how did you go back and forth?

SS: I always pictured this armor, and it’s something that she built up over the years reflected from her pain or her harder emotions that she’s never been allowed her space to really unpack. 

The weekends she spends with Charlie, he is able to see her clearly and in a way that no one has ever given her. It’s that attention in a way that no one ever sees her. So every time he says something like “You’re amazing” or “You’re intelligent”, “You’re beautiful”, “You’re a strong writer”,  she doesn’t know how to take it. She’s never received that before. So  it cracks a little bit. That’s when a little bit of vulnerability seeps through. And when that seeps through, that makes her really human. 

She got it for everything she can to mend it up. The way that she gets control, the way that she gets power over her situation is through violence, silent words, sometimes silent actions. Her first scene, when she is seeing her dad for the first time in ten years, makes her really confused at the end of that interaction. He was not who she thought he was all these years. In order to get control of her head, she’s like “I’m not going to stand up and do something that I know that you can’t do. That would make the situation feel like I’m on top. I’m in control.” it’s twisted, but it’s what she knows. 

Q: What made you decide to shoot this in a 4:3 aspect ratio? Do you think Ellie will try to help the missionary guy? 

SS: It kept me up at night, I have my theory. But I think it’s up to you to decide. 

DA: I shot in 4:3 to look more square because — a big wide screen makes sense if [the film’s] shot out in the desert. All apologies to the production designers, but it’s just an apartment.  And also because the emotions — it’s really about the actors. If you think about the shape, the shape of a square, it’s more like the shape of your head than a rectangle. So it was about performance and it was about the words. 

Q: He talked about the obliteration of self in terms of Whitman’s poem. Death is the road to “The Fountain” type endings. Why do you go there and how do you go there? 

DA: It’s true. Mark Heyman, who wrote “Black Swan,” wrote me a letter after he saw this. He was like, “Like all your films, the character dies at the end. But this one’s different because he actually gives something to someone else besides himself. Most of the other characters are selfish and it’s personal, right? This one actually gives something back.” So I was kind of evolving a bit.

Q: You depict quite a few characters who suffer from their own self-destructiveness and hopelessness towards that. What drives you to put stories like this on film? 

DA: I’m not really sure. I don’t know what drives or what I’m attracted to in these characters. I just find these stories really engaging. I felt that Charlie was very different because he was giving back so much. I don’t really have an answer except that all of these films I do just feel right somewhere and I tell the stories. So I don’t know if it’s fully conscious, what’s going on. When I find the stories it’s what is inspiring.

Q: The character of Ellie seems to be someone that’s playing both sides, like, “Oh, I really want to be alone,” but also “I want to be with people.” How did you go back and forth throughout your performance?

SS: I always pictured this armor, and it’s something that she built up over the years reflected from her pain or her harder emotions that she’s never been allowed her space to really unpack. The weekends she spends with Charlie, he’s able to see her clearly in a way that no one has ever given her. It’s that attention in a way that no one ever sees her. So every time he says something like “You’re amazing,” “You’re intelligent,” You’re beautiful”, or “You’re a strong writer,” she doesn’t know how to take it. She’s never received that before. It cracks a little bit. That’s when a little bit of vulnerability seeps through. And when that seeps through, it makes her really human. She’s got it for everything she can to mend it up. The way she gets control, the way that she gets power over her situation is through violence, silent words, and sometimes, silent actions. Her first scene, when she’s seeing her dad for the first time in 10 years, makes her really confused at the end of that interaction. He was not who she thought he was all these years. In order to get control of her head, she’s like, “I’m not going to stand up and do something that I know that I can’t do. That would make the situation feel like I’m on top. I’m in control.” it’s twisted, but it’s what she knows.

Q: What made you decide to shoot this in a 4:3 aspect ratio? 

SS: It kept me up at night, I have my theories. But I think it’s up to you to decide.

DA: I shot in 4:3 to look more square because — a big wide screen makes sense if [the film’s] shot out in the desert. All apologies to the production designers, but it’s just an apartment. It’s really about the actors. If you think about the shape, the shape of a square, it’s more like the shape of your head than a rectangle. It was about performance and about the words.

Q: There’s a lot of chatter about what led Brendan’s character to get to where he was, but it was 1000% necessary to see him as part of this. 

DA: If they see the film, it’s obvious. But it’s strange. Everyone’s got to have a point these days.

Q: Charlie’s character is very submissive. A lot of people equate that with those people, because they don’t want to be in the spotlight, having in the spotlight is a lot to handle, I don’t know how that influenced the character. 

DA: The writer Sam Hunter talked about that. He lived that experience, so he was really able to bring that to Charlie’s character. That was something that really moved me, how much he said, “Sorry.” It was part of his language and outlined that even though he wasn’t bad. The OAC is the Obesity Action Coalition. They’re a great organization, like the voice of people with obesity. We have them involved because we knew there would be many sensitivities and we wanted to see where we might be running into them. We started with them at the script level. Then when Brendan came on they connected him with people that lived with obesity and he was able to ask them many, many questions that gave him a lot of insight about how people have gone down this path.

One thing Brendan always talked about is that they all had a story about somehow being deeply offended by a parent figure — often the father — that insulted them in a way that they tumbled and spiraled away from there. They saw it when we finished it and their response to it was  that they’re so happy and thrilled that it’s out in the world, changing people’s minds. After the premiere, a group of doctors that I had invited came up to me and they were like, “We’re guilty. We have this path and we judge people of a different obesity and we don’t give them the same amount of attention — but maybe we should. But seeing this film and being and understanding Charlie actually changed them. That’s an exciting thing. It’s good for everyone, because it’s a prejudice that is still allowed in the world. It’s not like we’re condoning it or any of that, it’s just that we remember they’re people. That’s the bottom line.

Q: If the play was written 10 years ago, why did you place it in a very specific time, 2016? 

DA: 2016. We couldn’t set it in the present day because the healthcare workers would definitely be wearing masks, and everyone would be wearing a mask. When she was in a scene everyone would be wearing a mask. That would just kill the movie. It would be very hard to get a performance. So we started to think about when, and Sam was attracted to 2016 because for many of us, the world was about to change. It was also the last normal “normal” that existed. Then we were shooting in February and March [2021] and we were like, “2016, okay, what happened in February and March?” I was like, “Oh, it’s Super Tuesday” — which was a really interesting moment in time. I’m not trying to make a political comment or anything. It’s just a moment to remind us that we all lived through and these are characters in Idaho who went through it [as well].

Q: Thank you. 

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Here’s the trailer of the film.