©Courtesy of Universal Pictures
©Courtesy of Universal Pictures
Q&A with Actors Cynthia Erivo, Ariana Grande, Jonathan Bailey, Executive Producer Stephen Schwartz, Producer Marc Platt, and Director Jon M. Chu
Q: Before we talk about the movie, I think we have to go all the way back. Because there’s no movie without the Broadway musical. So, that means there’s no movie without Stephen Schwartz and Marc Platt. I would love to know, if you can sort of take us all the way back to the 90s, I think when this must have begun. When did you both realize that you had something really special on your hands?
Marc : I read this book, this brilliant novel by Gregory Maguire. This great idea. Some in the late 90s, and thought this would be a great movie. So, I started developing it as a film, because I’m a film producer as well. As a Broadway producer, I thought, this is so cinematic, it wants to be on film. I wasn’t happy with the screenplay. Then one day, this genius of a man called me and said, I know you have the rights to Wicked, and you’re developing it as a film. I think it should be a stage musical first. And thank goodness, I listened to him.
Stephen: Now I can continue with the story. I heard about the book from a friend of mine, in a very random way. She just told me the title and the idea. And immediately, all the hairs in my arms stood up. And I thought, what a genius idea. It just feels like it should be a musical. And it’s so much in my territory, in terms of the themes. So then, I found out, of course, that the rights were sold to a movie company.
And I thought, well, this is a hopeless adventure. Because this is never going to happen. But I’m going to try and go and talk the movie company into not making a movie. And starting with a stage musical. But I was very lucky, because this was the gentleman running the movie company at the time. And so, I walked into Mark’s office with great trepidation. And very enormous pessimism. And before I said anything, he sang, Did you sing Corner of the Sky?
Stephen: So I knew that maybe I had a receptive audience there.
Q:Oh, that’s incredible. I’d love to see your Corner of the Sky one day, Marc.
Marc: I will save that for my children.
Cynthia:Are we not part of that family now?
Ariana: Dad?
Q: Oh, that’s incredible. That’s amazing. And I think the collaboration is so special. And that is so, finding two people who just gel and have such amazing chemistry, as you both did. It’s so important to create a work of art. And so that brings me to Jon M. Chu. Which, I should have said at the top, he just welcomed his fifth child. I have to know, because we’ve heard that Ariana and Cynthia, they didn’t audition together, right? You never saw them test together. That never happened. How did you know, without any sort of chemistry read, that they not only were obviously perfect for the parts, but would be perfect together?
Jon: Because they took these roles from my hands. They literally entered the room, and we’d been searching for a while, and bit by bit, just took the whole thing. And you were like, there was no other choice for Glinda when you see Ariana Grande do this. There was no choice when she’s so funny, and you’re like, she’s the most interesting person in the room. And she owns it so much, you’re like, wow.
This is going to be, this is going to feel like a discovery. Because I’ve never seen this side of her. We have no choice when Cynthia Erivo comes in, in jeans and a t-shirt, after she sold out the Walt Disney Concert Hall, and she just sings “The Wizard and I” And when she sings those first words, then the movie just happens. It feels like she’s a little girl in a dorm room, like me, at USC, dreaming about making movies. And it connected so deeply. There was literally no other choice.
These were the people. And so the chemistry, we’re like, we’ll figure it out! And the first time they met, they came to my house. This was, I don’t know, eight months later. They came to my house to meet for the first time. It’s where I met a lot of people in person for the first time. This is during lockdown and Stephen Schwartz gets on the piano and starts playing “For Good”. And these ladies just walked right up there and I grabbed my kids, you’re sitting right here and watching this. And as soon as their voices hit, and nothing was rehearsed, I knew we had a movie.
©Courtesy of Universal Pictures
Q:That is absolutely incredible. I would love to hear from Cynthia and Ariana. What was that first moment like, singing together in front of Stephen and Jon?
Cynthia: I don’t know if the both of us were like, what? What? What? No, it’s like it’s connected. It’s a very intimate thing when you find a person you can sing with. Because it means that the both of you are willing to hear each other. And not just listening to your own part, but you’re actually intentionally listening to the person who’s singing with you. That’s more important than the sound of your own voice. When you can find a person who is willing to do that with you, you know that they’re willing to really go on a journey with you. And when that happened, I was so, so excited.
Ariana: Me too. I was so grateful.
Cynthia: You ruined it for everybody else.
Ariana: You Too. We’re really screwed! We’re spoiled for life.
Cynthia: What’s going to happen now?
Ariana: I don’t know. But it was beautiful. It was really special. We kind of noticed the first time we sang together that when we sing at the same time, it’s hard to tell who’s singing what. And our vibratos kind of latched on to one another and we sort of hold hands and move the same way, the same speed. And we can’t really explain why something like that happens. But it’s just a really insane connection. We were freaked out by it. We were like, what the heck?
Jon: We all cried. The rest of us just cried.
Q: It literally sounds like magic to me. It’s magic. It’s so incredible. I mean, your chemistry together, both of you, is so great. But I do have to say, the person who has the most chemistry with the most people in the movie is absolutely Jonathan Bailey. [audience laughter] I think you had a moment with every single student. So tell me, where did you get that from? How do you do it? Is it a Bridgerton thing? How do you do that?
Jon: It definitely wasn’t directed, let me tell you. It just sorta happened.
Jonathan: I think we did get a note from Jon saying, uh, too bloody. I mean it’s interesting hearing this amazing story. I feel like this film is the sum of so many friendships and creative partnerships. And Jon has brought along a whole mini team of pals he’s worked with for so many years. And it just set an incredible tone.
One of which is Chris Scott, the choreographer. He was incredible. And I was quite late to join everyone, but I started rehearsing. I was traveling in, and I’d have a day. And then me and Chris would just work intensely. And one of the things I said is that I just think Fiyero is confident and kind enough to invite everyone to Country. And so everyone should be included. Especially to, you know, he’s got such a huge arc, actually. And he represents the change that these women create I think around them. So to make sure that he starts off with a relish was important. And, um, and the librarian, Cherida Strallen, I know it’s never going to be as good as that for me.
Q: Oh, that’s so fantastic. I love that we’re sort of an intimate group here. And I really want to sort of hone in on some specific numbers. I think Dancing With Your Life is a great place to start. Just because it’s such a big, joyous, dancing number. I mean, the camera work is insane. It’s amazing. And then when we get to the Ozdust Ballroom, we see that Elphaba absolutely shatters our hearts and our souls. So I’d love to sort of talk for a second, maybe starting with John, how you conceived of that and decided to expand that from the stage version. Because we spend more time on that song than we do on the stage.
Jon: Yeah, we talked all about what we needed to do in Dancing With Your Life, which is all with Johnny Flyero coming in and breaking the rules for these people. So the choreography was very specific and angled and stuff before. But then as soon as he comes, sort of loosens their joints up. And as soon as we saw Johnny dance, then we’re like, okay, this is like new John Travolta coming in here. And he was fearless, jumping on the books, sliding on the books. He’s so physical. And so we designed this whole thing. I mean, he can do that all in one, from jumping on the books to flipping the books to going up. I mean, that’s all him.
And then with the tornado wheel, people wanted to call it the hamster wheel for so long. And I was like, let’s call it tornado wheel please. So the tornado wheel, we knew we needed something. We’re doing hints of different Americana movies throughout this movie. Like when they come into Shiz, it’s sort of like an 80s John Hughes movie. We wanted to deconstruct this idea. And so 2001, this sort of spinning thing. Or A Royal Wedding, however you want to see it. And the amount of work that that engineer needed to do to build those three. The amount of insurance conversations I had to have. Because any of those ladders could behead you.
We couldn’t build that until two weeks before we were shooting it. And then we didn’t know what type of dancers to put in it. Do you need stunt people? Do you need parkour people? Do you need hoppers? Do you need breakers? It was like a mad rush when we got that. We were like, wow, what did you need? We got parkour. We got all of it. But parkour mainly because they couldn’t really walk on those. They had to be able to walk on those ladders. But we knew we needed to go big on that front side so that the Oz desk could get as small as possible.
We knew that the dynamics of Dancing Through Life had to be that. Because the bigger we went, the smaller we could go with that. And go into silence. And basically hand off the canvas to these two women. And that work was the two of them with Chris to just figure out how Elphaba moves. How does she make space? And does she defy it? Or has she been told to prove herself? Has she been told to control her power? Or does she surrender to her power? And I loved finding that because they really had it for the first time. Every time we shot it, you had to go from A to Z. We could not just cut it into pieces. We had to go through all the emotions. And that was beautiful to watch. And that’s all. Wow.
©Courtesy of Universal Pictures
Q:What was it like for you to be approving that moment?
Cynthia: When we first figured out what we wanted to do, I walked in and Chris Scott and Comfort and Will, the associate choreographers, had already choreographed something. I watched it and thought it was wonderful. But said, no thank you. Because it didn’t feel like Elphaba. It didn’t feel like her language. It didn’t feel like that’s the way she would move, at least truthfully for me. So we set to work finding out what movement felt right for her. I knew that I wanted her to be someone who could move, but she just understood movement differently.
So once we discovered that this dance came out of something, we choreographed it to almost silence and just found out what the rhythm would be and what the story was. And I kept trying to figure out, why would she take the hat off? Would she then put the hat back on? I need to give her a reason to go back and pick it up. And we decided that it was in order to regain ownership of what the hat actually meant and what it could do so that it really does become the emblem of the Wicked Witch when she puts it back on her head instead of it being an object of pain. And so then when that dance finishes, I was like, well, what do I do in order to invite Glinda to come and join? What is that moment?
And we realized that it was just sort of like a moment of quiet and it’s just like a shoulder movement which allows for sort of invitations, can we start again? And then wonderfully Ari chose not to learn it completely so that I could teach it to her. So every time we would do this dance, she wouldn’t learn it completely so that when we got to the day when we were shooting, she was learning it every time from me. And so it really worked as a partnership. So wonderful, I love when we get to put our hands together because I get to guide her hand in the right way and we get to move together and we are moving at that pace so that it is like we’re learning each other for the first time properly.
But it was really tough, really painful, but rightfully so and really necessary. I felt like the most protected, most safe, most held person in that room. Every single person put so much energy forward into the middle of the dance floor and really holding up, including Jon and Mark. And Ari was fierce in the projection, fierce in keeping the energy right so that I could get through it. Every time those tears fell every single time, it hurt every single time, but even still, I was always holding just a little bit. They could all see it so that by the end of the day, whatever was left just fell out. And she sent me home at the end of it.
Q: Wow, that’s so beautiful to know that you were learning how to do that dance. It’s just so special. That’s really a beautiful thing to do in a room full of people and cameras around you. How did you learn that experience? How was that for you?
Ariana: I just felt that it was important, that it felt scary for me because I think in that moment, up until that very moment, when the biggest fear is probably standing in the circle of a bunch of people being judged or having them think something negative about you the way that it’s happening for Elphaba, being made fun of, not being liked, not being popular. I think that’s probably the biggest fear until that very moment.
And then it switches very quickly and her biggest fear becomes hurting someone like that ever again. And it’s not that she joins out of pity or out of, oh, I feel badly for this person. It’s an urgent need to take it on with her. And it’s like, how can I jump into this space and become one with this person that I’ve caused so much pain? And try to transmute it somehow. And not learning the dance made it just look as beautifully awkward and honest as possible. And I just…
Jon: And the restraint not to cry. Because we were all feeling uncomfortable. And it would be so easy for you to fall into that same energy. And you were like, hold back, hold back. This is my choice to … she’s not going to cry. But being on that cusp of that edge was just so beautiful to watch. The same thing with you guys walking this fine ledge of this. And it forced all our cameras to be more restrained. It forced everything to just sit back and let it play.
Jonathan: Yeah, I think it’s been a great pleasure of mine just to observe, obviously, in those moments it also has the role of theory.(?) But also the two coming together. But John is working with the two of you. I think that was an amazing day to see the safety and the detail and the… there was just like a glow and something that I couldn’t put my… I wouldn’t be able to describe it in words. But between these three. And I remember just being there and observing it. And then Michelle Yeoh came back with the Oscar.
Q:Yeah, you had a party for her at the Oscars Ballroom after she came back. It had to be the best Oscar party in the world.
Ariana: The first scene was with Johnny and me right after she returned. And we had this big Oscar party with a cake that was an Oscar and with an actual Oscar. And then Johnny and I went and they were like, all right Johnny and Ari, you’re up with Michelle. And we were like, okay. First scene back after winning. And we were like, all right, let’s go, here we go.
©Courtesy of Universal Pictures
Q: Oh my god, that’s absolutely thrilling. That’s absolutely crazy, that’s wild. Wow. Oh gosh, I love how internal we just got. But I also want to talk about some of the big moments and I mean one of the biggest, best moments is Popular, it’s absolutely amazing. It’s beautiful. And there is a part of her singing into the heavens, it’s incredible. Something that I really love, which I have to imagine is harder to do in a movie than it is on stage or even with a studio audience, is to be funny. You’re not getting the feedback of laughs, I’m sure, because of sound reasons, so you have to be really confident in your choices and know what you’re doing. How did you, where did you pull your incredible comedic timing from to pull that number off?
Ariana: Oh gosh, I mean, thank you, first of all. And I did hear occasionally Jon hissing, laughing under Glinda’s bed. I don’t know. I mean, the funny factor is kind of not in the room with you. You can’t judge it while it’s happening. You just have to play it truthfully and it feels real. So it’s not really something that you’re like, oh god, I hope it lands. It’s kind of what the character is doing, I suppose. I don’t know.
My favorite thing about Popular week was how much we got to play and how much Jo n encouraged me to just kind of get what’s written, of course. And then he was like, okay, Glinda, go do whatever. I think we found some really fun things through that playfulness and the freedom to try and improv and try to make this one break. My favorite thing in the world was when she would break and laugh. That was an indicator. That was when we knew. But, you know, I mean, that’s great fun, I think, with comedy. It’s just kind of trying to find the truth and then hoping that yes, there you go.
Q: Absolutely. It gets me every time. And I think that Popularity is another amazing example of how we’ve expanded the world. And there’s even some new music at the end of it, which I’m looking at Stephen Schwartz. How did you figure out how to sort of cinematically transform and take Popular already a perfect musical theater song and make it even more perfect for the screen with that brand new ending?
Stephen: I just wanted to feel the ending more. And I played it for Ari, and Ari at first was hesitant to do that because she thought it would look as if we were just throwing something in for Ariana Grande and not for the character. But I just said, if I thought of this in 2003, this is how the song would have ended. I just didn’t think of it until now. So once Ari was confident that it was actually an authentic choice then she did it and brilliantly.
Jon: And Ari had to be down for that. I mean, it was amazing. But then Ari, we were like, hey, if we’re going to do this ending, we’ve got to up the ante. We’re not going to cut it. We’re going to do one take. We’re going to do the whole thing. Every mistake, people are going to pick apart. If you don’t kick your leg up there, you’ve got to train for this. Can you do this? Are you willing to go there? And most actors would be like, no. Can you have one cut in the middle somewhere? And she went. She went for it. And that was so funny.
Q: So fantastic. Absolutely. Another piece of expanded music, an expanded scene. We have wonderful cameos. Actually, actor Stephen Schwartz is right over there. Can you talk a little bit about that just incredible new scene that’s sort of like plugged into the middle of One Short Day and then also working on that all four of you, getting Kristin and Idina in the movie. Absolutely the camera work is out of this world. It’s crazy. Yeah, I’d love to hear a little about that.
Stephen: Winnie Holzman and I wanted to use the opportunity because we had time to show more of the wizard’s propaganda, how he’s getting out into the world, this fake story, and persuading all of Oz that he has abilities that he doesn’t. And also we wanted to explain more about what this mysterious book The Grimmerie is because it figures very importantly, not just in this movie, but extremely importantly in movie 2.
And so I had written this kind of expanded version of Wiz-o-mania. Meanwhile just as people who love Kristin and Idina, we were like we have to get them in the movie somewhere. And we had all these not very good ideas about they could be somebody’s mother, they could be a teacher, I mean we had not very good ideas. And Jon Chu said well you’ve written these wise ones of Oz, why don’t we just have that be the two wise women of Oz and make it Kristin and Idina. And so it was just so much fun to do that and again the night when they came and we filmed that and it was Ari and Cynthia and Kristin and Idina, we just basically shot it but cried mostly.
©Courtesy of Universal Pictures
Q: Wow, a lot of tears, a lot of great tears. And yeah, smart cookie, that’s really it’s amazing to come up with that. Wow, oh gosh. I think I guess going from One Short Day that brings us into the last sort of act of the film where we get this amazing action sequence where we’ve got a hot air balloon which is a nice nod to The Wizard of Oz and then we get to Defying Gravity where you absolutely, it’s something you tear the roof off the place. It’s one way of just doing that song, I think it’s another thing to do it while being hoisted through the air, you know, thrown about. How do you prepare for a challenge like that and pull it off?
Cynthia: I put myself through some rigorous training because I knew I was going to be doing the stunt and sing at the same time so I wanted to make sure that my body was prepared for it and I had an amazing vocal coach who just helped me find the breath I needed in order to do it because usually you’re singing something like that and that needs a lot of force, that needs a lot of sound usually you need the ground to push off of but when you don’t have it.
You have to find it somewhere else so it was about replacing the ground with literally the air and my non-existent diaphragm because it was in a corset so it was just like a real learning curve for me. I was really determined I really wanted to do the song justice and I really wanted to do the stunts because I wanted to feel like I was flying whilst I was singing this song. So I just did everything that I could and I endured whatever bruises and chafing and whatever was next and listen, the word chafing sounds funny but the reality is it’s painful you know but but it was much it was necessary, I wanted to make sure that I could experience both what flight felt like and what it felt like to sing that song in one and I hope it was worth it.
Q:It’s so thrilling. And I think something that, seeing the credits roll from the movie and thinking about where we are in this industry and Hollywood and entertainment and Broadway and theater, just the sheer number of names that scrolled down during the credits, hundreds of actors, dancers, hundreds of musicians, hundreds of production & crafts people, costumes, sets, every aspect of it So it’s such a full ensemble of artists that you got together to make this film. What was it like to corral that and what does it mean to be responsible for all those people and to make sure that their artistic vision comes to fruition and in line with the movie as a whole?
Jon: It’s a mindfuck! We have the best job in the world, we get to go into Oz, what filmmaker gets to go and build Oz and you get to do Wicked it’s never been an animated movie, they never recorded it off the stage. This was like the greatest opportunity and fun time you could have in making a movie and more than that we had something to say with this, I think when we all got together, it was like this isn’t just a Broadway adaptation this is at a moment in our world where people don’t know what’s next and these girls offer two roads to what that could be.
We all want to be Elphaba, we all feel that way we all want to explode into the world and say, never again! But we’re all sort of like Galinda we were debating should we, can we, is this best for me and I love that they sort of find each other in the middle that’s sort of what I think the course of both movies will do but it is a huge task I couldn’t have done it obviously alone but it is, I think we had to put the horizon line as high as possible and when you do that and you put the script on the wall and you put emotions to each scene, cause I don’t know how to tell Paul Tazewell (costumer) how to design but I can say, you and Cynthia go away but this is, yearning is the scene what’s the clothes that she needs to wear, Erin what’s the makeup that she needs to do and for popular this is her superpower.
She’s actually sharing not just some silly thing she’s sharing her actual superpower, influence so I don’t know what she needs to wear in that I guess it’s a peignoir. I’ve never heard that word before but don’t do that and for Defying Gravity it was every piece of stunts and VFX and VFX that build as much as you can to really help.
But we say a lot about physical stuff, but the VFX needed those things and they are all over this movie and I think all of those things together and each of us thought of like if we’re blowing up this idea of the Wizard of Oz of this American fairy tale with this new idea of what a hero looks like, what a villain looks like, what you’re supposed to do that each character needs to ask their first question, their first real question in Oz. And I love mapping that out when Johnny’s in that forest and he asks, and his brain breaks, which is that he wouldn’t be so unhappy and watch each of them break open.
So was, yes, it was all a big spectacle, but everybody understood the beats that they were doing. They would come to our rehearsals and all the department heads and we’d walk through everything and Mark and Stephen, we’d all be talking through this constantly, just maybe why? We talk a lot about it, but we’ve talked about it. And then each would take their craft and their language and infuse the movie with that. And I was just like, let’s get them on film, get those things in jars and we’ll see.
Q:God he got in jars so we could all see it. It really flows every expectation, which I think a lot of people had a lot of expectations for because this is such a beloved property and it has been until the end of time, and it’s really special to have not only met those expectations, but exceeded them at every turn. So I want to thank all of you for that.
©Courtesy of Universal Pictures
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