When Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga took on the roles of Ed and Larraine Warren for James Warren’s 2013 true-life horror film, The Conjuring, they might not have realized that they would be playing those roles for more than ten years, as it became a hugely successful horror franchise.

It’s now 12 years later, and Wilson and Farmiga are once again playing the Warrens in The Conjuring: Last Rites, directed by Michael Chaves of The Nun 2 and the previous installment, The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It, from 2021. This is a very different movie in the horror franchise, since it focuses more on the Warrens’ family life, particularly their daughter Judy, played by Mia Tomlinson. The film begins in 1964 when Larraine is pregnant with Judy, and they experience a horrible demon within a mirror. 22 years later, the Warrens are retired but learning of the horrifying supernatural encounters of the Smurl family in Pennsylvania, they’re dragged back into that world, this time along with Judy and her new fiancé Tony, played by Ben Hardy. 

Cinema Daily US attended a small virtual roundtable of mostly horror journalists a few weeks back to talk to Wilson and Farmiga about ending the Warren’s story with Last Rites.

Q: This film is obviously based on a very upsetting part of the Warrens’ lives. How much research did you do specifically into this case and how it affected the Warrens personally? 

Vera Farmiga: I had spoken quite a bit to Lorraine about the Smerl case back in the day.There is a lot, because they were very public with it and kind of press happy, the family. There is a lot to receive online and a lot of interviews they had given. There is footage with the Warrens with the Smerls. There was a lot for us to take in, but I think that really it’s just focusing on what is our story that we’re telling this time around? How are we going to going to make this the ultimate? Yes, there’s this family haunting, but really this is an entity that wants the Warrens, and it’s using the Smerls to get at the Warrens. Because it was like eight months ago that I read it, I can’t even remember the research that I did.  I always just go in to just watch every interview that Lorraine did on the Smurl case. All those are readily available. It all informed us in terms of even from the clothes that I’m wearing in this one to the tone of voice she uses. It’s mostly interviews talking about the Smurl case that are accessible. 

Q: What was it like to be told, “Hey, we’re doing a fourth Conjuring,” and that moment, “By the way, it’s also the last one” and balancing and delivering another great Conjuring film, but also bringing that sentimentality that came with delivering a closing chapter. 

Patrick Wilson: We knew going in. It wasn’t a surprise. It was partly for us, too, trying to figure out what’s the best. You don’t want to just keep going back to the well if you’re not doing anything different. We didn’t set out to do this massive franchise, so each film was sort of built on the last one. I think they knew that the third “Conjuring” wanted to be a departure and more of a murder-mystery. I think they always knew that was almost a standalone in a strange way. How do we bring it back to the spirit of the first two?  

We knew that they wanted to bookend it with the most emotional movie that we could. Yes, in terms of horror and terror and all of the scares, but really, this one’s for the fans. They’re all for the fans, really, if we’re being honest – that’s why we do this. Not that you need to see the first films to come see this one, but if you have, there’s an added sense of sentiment.  I know you guys understand that, but all those little callbacks to the first film and the second film, I think, are really important. So we knew that going into it, so if anything, we would see drafts and go, “It’s not quite there yet. We want to get back to that original Conjuring spirit.” That was a constant source of of really mining the work with the writers, producers, and  James [Wan], and then when [Michael] Chaves came on, I mean, everybody just trying to do the best we could to honor the series and to end it the proper way. 

Farmiga: But I felt that pressure. How do you come back and turn up that dial to 11? He and I have made casting out demons together, romantic. How do we bring even more love and even more goo? These are two people who finish exorcisms together, but they also finish each other’s sentences. How do we bring all those things that we know the fans are hankering for, which I think is the love? The audience have fallen in love with what Ed and Lorraine represent. In the middle of all all the chaos and the terror is this really unwavering, really tender connection between them. That’s always very exciting for us to come back to. I think the stakes were tremendously high, just in terms of the plot and and and bringing it back to… we’re cracking open the Warren’s diary with this one, and we’re bearing witness to something profoundly tragic that happened. This beast that was a part of that tragedy has been nursing this decades old hate and vendetta against them, and so, the stakes were going to be tremendous on this one just because the writers and James and Peter [Safran] really got that plot point right in terms of how to make it deeply, deeply personal.

Q: Mia and Ben join this film in a way that feels so natural. I love all the character moments and it has to be to a degree because of the two of you and your experience with them on set. Can you talk about that? 

Wilson: Sure, yeah. They both did a fantastic job, and took the torch of characters that have been played even though they’re different ages. Because this was such a whole new set of problems, because now we’re looking at them as young adults. I think working with them on set, Ben is certainly super established  – not saying that Mia’s not, but Ben’s got a pretty extensive resume. This series, if you haven’t done a lot of horror and specifically these types of movies, it’s a whole different beast. [chuckles] It was actually exciting to watch actors discover what this movie is. There’s a heightened sense of theatricality. We don’t bail out of any scene. The love scenes are super romantic. The death scenes are super deadly. Getting them on the same page and having rehearsals with them early and talking it through and trying to really just provide them with the most open, comfortable environment to swing a big stick. Go for it. 

Farmiga: It wasn’t always comfortable, Patrick. I remember at the beginning, Mia was having a real issue, because of the pace that we work. We got budget constraints. We’ve got time. We’re working with kids. We have to work fast. I remember coaching Mia through the pacing, and be like, “There’s not going to be a lot of time for rehearsal, so we’re going to work this out in real time.” Watching her become stronger and stronger and more comfortable with that process and not so heavy about it and opening up her heart to the way we have to work on a “Conjuring” set. IT was really interesting to watch her blossom as an actress.

Wilson: That’s true. Great point.

Q: Ed and Lorraine have been the beating heart of this franchise over four films, and Last Rites was such a lovely send off to one of horror’s favorite couples, so looking back over all of that, what are you both most proud of having accomplished with these characters individually and together as Ed and Lorraine? 

Farmiga: I think we figured out very early on that the special effects of this one weren’t going to be the ghosts and the scares. It was going to be in the glances between him and me. I’m really proud that there’s just something wildly sexy and romantic about saving each other from possession from film to film. [laughs] It’s kind of mind-blowing the formula of this franchise, that there could be this duo, that their idea of intimacy is Latin chanting, and people eat that up. They got that right up. People hankering that, “Oh, my God, I hope they’re going to kiss between exorcisms.” [laughs] It’s such a weird thing that we’ve achieved with these two characters. 

Wilson: Rarely, do you do something and have it be in real time that you can feel the weight of it. I think coming back movie after movie and aware of the same people and approach work the same way with the same amount of passion and frivolity. To what you just said about how does it feel to be this favorite horror couple or an iconic horror couple, whatever you want to call it,I think that’s really special. I think we’re very conscious of that. I think that’s, for lack of a better phrase,  it’s cool. When I think of the great… whether it was when Anthony Hopkins did one of the greatest villains in horror movie history. When you start talking about those kinds of memorable performances and to feel like your union, your bond with your costar has become at least that recognized, because of the amount of people that have seen these films. I think that is very special. We wear that with gratitude. 

Farmiga: For sure. If I could rewind to 2011 before getting this and seeing that logline and seeing the character description, to play a demon hunting soulmate, what does that even mean? [laughs] How are we going to deliver that? What does that entail? Who knew that it would honestly be the most emotionally demanding role of my career, to be honest with you.

Q: From the very first movie to now the Last Rites, how do you feel that you’ve changed as both actors and believers from starting this franchise to now? 

Wilson: It’s interesting. I think we always were open people, we’re open actors. It’s not like, “I was a skeptic and now I’m a believer.” That’s not how we kind of roll. I think there’s an openness that sure, bring it on, bring on everything, bring on a billion dollar franchise and bring on the demons. Let’s go. If it’s fight or flight, we’re definitely fighters. I don’t know that we’ve changed. I think if anything, probably actually you’re talking about what you just said about the pacing. I think there is something, if I’m really breaking it down, I have become an actor because of these movies. You don’t have a ton of time. You know you have to swing a big stick and go for it and be bold and brazen and embrace the love and embrace the fear. That’s probably affected into my other work, I bet. I think a large majority of that is because of these movies. 

Farmiga: It’s a workout. Horror is a workout. It’s increased my stamina for sure. [laughs]

Q: I’m not sure if either of you had heard the legendary stories from the set of The Exorcist, where they had all sorts of strange occurrences – there have been books written about it and even movies about them. Have there been any kind of weird things like that happening to you on set, either on this movie or on previous movies, that really shook you up? 

Wilson: Yeah, we’ve had our share. My God, we shot the first film on location in Wilmington, right next to the stage where Brandon Lee passed away on The Crow. So you’re already going into your series with like, “Oh, my God, even the studio is haunted.” I don’t mean to be flippant – you feel the weight of those things. We’ve had these questions over the years, and you can go through various stories and stuff where we said, “Oh, this happened, this happened. This happened to Joey King on the first one.” The weird thing is when it really does happen, you don’t want to talk about it. Of course, in this situation, with you guys, it makes for great stuff. But it’s very difficult when it does, because like we’re people, so when things really happen, it’s uncomfortable. It’s not great. We don’t typically like to talk about it. I’m not going to lie. Vera’s had plenty of things which she could discuss, but I’m not going to. [chuckles]

Farmiga: Yeah, I’ve gotten battered. I get battered all the time. I text Patrick, and I text him pictures like this. [Shows a picture from her phone.] These are real bruises in real bizarre shapes on my body. It happens every film time and time again. I don’t pay much attention. I acknowledge it. I immediately text him photos. He scoffs and thinks I’ve self-inflicted it, which I don’t, but it doesn’t happen to him. I guess I’m the susceptible one. I’m the vulnerable one that gets hammered by whatever. [laughs] It’s trying to nail us time and time again; it happens all the time. You can look at those shapes, and it’s three crosses. Whether I show you my thigh upside down, it could be upside down or right side up. But yeah, stuff happens. We’re forced to talk about it, because these questions are asked and it makes for great press, but it’s not fun when it happens to you. It’s completely inexplicable. I don’t sit there pressing my thigh, hammering away. That’s not me just trying to create a good story. The stuff has happened to me time and time again, but it is what it is. The more focus we put on it, it’s giving it attention. Lorraine would be the first one to tell you that, then just don’t give it so much attention. 

Q: Vera, in the various horror films you’ve both been in, it seems like a lot of them point towards themes around family and whether it’s broken families or otherwise, it doesn’t scare us if that’s a conscious choice?

Wilson: I don’t know if it’s [conscious]. I think most great horror movies, they have to do with some type of family drama – that’s the engine behind it. The car can be the genre – I’ll stay with that metaphor – whatever the device is to tell the story, but they’re always really great family dramas. That’s certainly something that I think probably latched us on very early. You knew that the Warrens were going to have these cases, but it really was going to be, “Okay, how does this affect their relationship? How does it affect them as people, as parents?” That’s something obviously as actors that you want to dig into. Those are the layers in the humanity, because you want a movie to supersede the genre, right? The reason, if you think about why this series sort of, for us, why it transcended the genre wasn’t just a horror film that does some money and goes away. I think when you kind of unpack the character work and the people, the humanity, those are of course the characters that you love. So you want characters that you know and understand and love to be put in peril, and that’s what keeps audiences coming back.We’re attracted to those kinds of stories. At least I am certainly sure you’re on your own, honey. 

Farmiga: No, I agree, me, too. I always look for profound emotional architecture beneath whatever drama, beneath the scares. Godzilla was focused on the relationship between the mother and daughter and here’s another mother and daughter. There’s all kinds of love. There’s friendship in this with Father Gordon. There’s love between the husband and wife. There’s parental love. There’s emerging love with Judy and Tony. I just get drawn to that kind of deep unwavering connections. 

Look for our interviews with director Michael Chaves and producer James Wan later this week. 

The Conjuring: Last Rites opens nationwide on Friday, September 5.