Q : You start with no script, and you work with your actors to create the characters and the situations. But there must be something, an initiating idea, or a basic premise at the beginning. I’m wondering what it was in this case.

Mike Leigh: It’s not a question with an answer. The truth is that, in the way that painters paint, and novelists write novels, and literature, poetry, etc. We make these films of mine, and this film is no exception, by embarking on a journey of discovering what the film is, on the journey of making it. And obviously, I had some notions and ideas, but obviously I decided to deal with this particular corner of society. But, I have ongoing preoccupations, which you can see in those. And I can’t really talk in the whole pitch language, what the idea was as such. Yes, we get together, a group of actors, I work individually with each of them to find and create a character. They can talk about this.

The real main thing that then happens in a long period before we get to the shoot is to bring into existence. The world of the characters, their relationships, their back story going right back to the beginning etc. But the real issue, the real job is shooting the picture. And what we do, what I do just before we start is to write a very broad scenario.

And, which is only there to help me to structure it a little, to help us to plan it and so on. Scene by scene, sequence by sequence, location by location, we work from all, using very in depth character improvisation, which we’ve been doing for months. And we go to the location, we improvise, and we then script.

One of the myths about my films, and including in some reporters about this one, is that what you’re looking at is actors ad libbing on screen. There’s not a single moment in this film which is, in that sense, is ad libbed. We arrive at a very precise piece of action, part of which, of course, is what people say, much of what they do, or what they don’t say.

It’s very structured and precise. I hope I can say, in cinematic terms, classical in its structure. And apart from the other thing I would say about, in answer to your question, is that it’s not just about what the actors do. It’s a great collaboration. Actors, production designer costume designer, makeup designer, cinematographer, and so on.

In order to roll on the same page, talk in the same language, create in the same world, in a completely detailed and organic way.

Q : How long is the process preparation and rehearsal in this case?

Mike Leigh: 14 weeks. It’s shorter than that. It’s like a prison for 48 minutes. That is a relatively short book. It is short, yes. To some degree, these things are to a great extent, in fact, they are defined by the budget.

Q : Marianne, so this is your first time working with Mike’s “Secrets & Lies.”

Mike Leigh : Yes.

Q : Except, although we did talk about this, you did actually compose the music for one film in the interim. For your rights.

Mike Leigh: Oh! The fine score it is.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste: It was amazing. It was God. After working in a very different way for a long time, to go back to where it started.

When I first worked with Mike, it was very close after leaving drama school. And there was still this sense of adventure and exploration. Pushing things out and wanting challenges and then you slip into the conventional way of making films and telling stories. And I was very hungry for this type of experience again.

But then at the same time, you can’t unknown what you now know. So it was about really being brave again. And being bold and trusting. What I realized working with Mike is that. God, I really trust him, to take care of me, to make sure that I’m not going too far, and yeah, that, I hope that answers your question. It was wonderful.

Q : Could you tell us a bit about the process of creating this very layered, very difficult character

Mike Leigh : Played secretly.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste: Yes, I mean I would try and make it as short as possible. Basically how the process would start off is you’d come in with a list of people that you know from real life. And we’d both go through them and, siphon out ones that weren’t right. And then Mike would make those decisions about who was right and who wasn’t.

And then you may end up with three people. And then you just explore bringing those characters to life. And you start to build this character. You would start from their first memory and go right up to the age that they are, when you see them in the film. And that’s what you do in isolation with Mike.

The next step might be you might walk into a room one day and you might say, Oh, this is going to be your sister, brother, son. And then you start again trying to build a parallel history with that person. So it’s very detailed which is important. It’s important that the characters know where they grew up, for example.

What school they went to. Who were their neighbours who lived across the street. What buses took them there. that’s how detailed the character building is in this process.

Mike Leigh: And of course it’s important that we began with the two sisters, that there was a pre seed, the husband and the son, and then the daughter.

And of course once it starts to grow, in the nature of real life, how each character develops is to a considerably important extent defined by a relationship with the other character. Just as we affect each other in real life.

Q : It’s amazing. Tuwaine, this is your first time working with Mike, I’d like to hear how you created your character.

Tuwaine Barrett: It’s similar to Marianne, I went in with a huge list of black males that I knew. We spent, I think, two days? Three days? Maybe just going through the list. And what was so great was I was naming all these people that I knew, but they didn’t have substance, some of the people that I was naming. The

Mike Leigh: The truth of it is, We can say it. The fact is he’s a very sociable guy, these two of you. First of all, because I just say, talk about people you know. So along this, a very interesting, positive, slightly showbiz, pizzazzy kind of guy.

I had some notion of where we wanted to go. So we got to Tuwaine, and I said to him but see if you can think of, were there any losers? And I think I can report, it was just a moment, where I thought, I’m afraid I get it, yeah, it’s not just a showbiz thing we’re doing.

Tuwaine Barrett: That’s exactly what  happened. It was great, and yeah creating this character was extremely difficult, but as Marianne said, with Mike’s leadership and guidance, I was able to make it possible and I think the whole time. Even now, I still have impostor syndrome. It feels really incredible being up here with Marianne.

Mike Leigh: Yeah. I’ve been in this business for a very long time and I think I could say, but it ain’t seen the last of Tawain Barrett.

Q : I’m wondering if each of you, or any of you, could say a little bit about why it’s important to begin with a real person. Even though obviously you then build and create from there.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste: I think it’s important to root the character. I Do you know what I mean? And if you have a real person, then you’ve got someone to go for. You’re not just creating something from your imagination.

Mike Leigh: The Truth of it is, I don’t actually know what else. There are people, some of you here this afternoon, I’m sure, are involved in actors workshops of various kinds. Where you just see what happens and you just start improvising and all of that. A lot of that is to do with the actor to be really honest about it, the actor playing himself, playing herself.

Just finding something within herself. Now I’m not interested in that. No, that’s not a joke. I’m not, because it’s about looking at the real world. And I don’t really know what I would do by way of starting. Whereas if we say, okay, let’s start from real people. That gives us a chunk of real world. It can grow, it can push in different directions. But it means there is something to start with and something to work from.

Q : Marianne, I was curious to maybe hear you say a little bit about creating, figuring out the physicality of the character, Pansy, because, she’s obviously very verbal. But it also is it’s such a full body performance in some ways. There’s something very distinctive about her personality, about her physicality.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste: Yeah, I think that all the layers that we put on in terms of her pain, her background the way she moves through the world.

I did little exercises where I would go to the supermarket as Pansy. No one got hurt in the process. But it was just interesting to see how, if you don’t want to come into any contact with anyone, do you know what I mean?

How you move. Do you know what I mean? She was tight. So it’s like just moving through space in a tight way. And where you look, you’re looking out for people to say something to you, do something to you.

Do you know what I mean? You always get ready for a fight. So I think just those exercises were very useful to create this fantasy.

Q :  Another aspect I think, Mike, you mentioned you’re a production designer. I was curious about, Pansy’s poem and the discussions that the two of you had with, in terms of designing this kind of very sterile space.

Mike Leigh: Susie Davies is the production designer. Very versatile, apart from anything else. She’s done very different kinds of movies. The kind of world we’re talking about, the background culture itself. Actually, she started to put things in, that were too decorative really. Once she realized what she was doing,  and of course, the design of that house was being worked on simultaneously with the girls house. And of course, it’s obvious that the contrast, the difference is there to be exploited.

Q: I’m curious about Marion, you talked about the pain of the character, and I think, anger also is a defining quality. That’s not in a white house. It poses a question, or it begs the question of why Hanzi is this way. And I think what’s interesting about the film is that it doesn’t ever really answer that question, but perhaps it gives you some hints. And I’m wondering if, was it important for you as the actor to know where this pain came from or not?

Marianne Jean-Baptiste: As the actor, I knew where the pain came from, and so to play that was easier. I think that, and also I have to add that in the way that we work, the actors don’t know what the actual story is going to be. You don’t know any of the C’s that don’t involve us. We’ve got no idea what they are. You’re just living day to day with what’s on the list of things to do.

This has come up quite a lot with there not being some kind of resolution. And I think that’s beautiful. I think that it allows the audience members to go away and decide, make up your own mind. We very often don’t know where people’s pain comes from. If you get accosted in the supermarket, you might think, oh dear, what’s wrong with her? Do you know what I mean? The guy’s got a problem. But you’re not oh, he’s they might get OCD there, or, he might be bipolar, or.

We don’t do that. We just say, F off. Clutch our pearls and move away. And I think that, I think the movie’s great in that way, it’s just going, it’s sad to follow that.

Mike Leigh: I absolutely object to directors or anybody talking about explaining the film you’ve just seen. I think they’re boring. So if you’re going to clap at this moment, please do. I’ve started film festivals to digress. There are any number of directors explaining in detail what you’ve just seen. Or worse,I don’t think it’s, I only want to say this, it’s not entirely, not absolutely entirely true that there is no explanation, because you do, we do, there is the subject, I think what happens there, and subsequently, the direction it points in is important, and that’s all

Q : One last question. Mikey, in your introduction, you mentioned this question.After the screening of Naked, which obviously has stayed with you for three decades. About Johnny, that is the remark of 24 hours after the film ends. I’m not going to ask the question what happens 24 hours after this film ends. But I did want to ask about the ending. And choosing to end o that note. Of openness, ambiguity.

Mike Leigh: Don’t then, will she, will he? I hand it over to you. It’s not a cop out, it is important for you to go away with stuff to work with, and say things about, and stuff to argue about. But what’s also important, of course, is in and amongst the question of what happens is that we nicely, the man there, Possibly, onto a good thing. She was an American girl, I think

Tuwaine Barrett: I think she was from New York.

Q : I think that’s a great question to end.

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Here’s the trailer of the film.